[pproteinc]

the problem with 77 isnt the # of lanes, its all the freaking on and off ramps. thats whats slowing traffic. they just need to close some of them off and traffic would flow better.

I agree, however at the same time who thought it was ok to have and why is there 8 lanes out in the country (York County) and 6 lanes within a major city (Meck County)? Coming in to Charlotte should have easily been at least 8 to 12 lanes. If a small town like Salisbury can have a 10 lane highway I'm pretty sure the largest city in NC should have about the same if not more. Charlotte is becoming the new ATL, with people and companies moving here in large quantities. It's just going to get worse. I think we need at least 2 or 3 more freeways lol. 77 and 85 are the only interstate and then a loop. Looks like they're trying to make the first half of Independence a freeway as well which will help with traffic in that area. Coming into Uptown from that area is hell on earth in the mornings and leaving in the evenings.

I know I've touched on it before and Jonathan enlightened me on the subject matter, but I still think they need to aggressively get the rail lines up and going to the for corners of Meck County. I'm talking heavy rail. Light rails do not have enough cars on them, but who am I.

[RollerBee]

Salisbury, NC?
If so, it is only 5 lanes between Exit 75 and 76. Only of those exits are main roads for Salisbury/Rowan County.

On the topic of 77, I was under the impression that no general purpose(free lanes) were going to be added for the forseeable future; Only toll lanes. The problem with 77 through downtown is there is little if any land to add lanes without bulldozing structures in addition to bridges.

[chknwing]

plenty of room, just build above it.

[RollerBee]

^How many places have roads/interstates like that?

[Capler]

the problem with 77 isnt the # of lanes, its all the freaking on and off ramps. thats whats slowing traffic. they just need to close some of them off and traffic would flow better.

I agree, however at the same time who thought it was ok to have and why is there 8 lanes out in the country (York County) and 6 lanes within a major city (Meck County)? Coming in to Charlotte should have easily been at least 8 to 12 lanes. If a small town like Salisbury can have a 10 lane highway I'm pretty sure the largest city in NC should have about the same if not more. Charlotte is becoming the new ATL, with people and companies moving here in large quantities. It's just going to get worse. I think we need at least 2 or 3 more freeways lol. 77 and 85 are the only interstate and then a loop. Looks like they're trying to make the first half of Independence a freeway as well which will help with traffic in that area. Coming into Uptown from that area is hell on earth in the mornings and leaving in the evenings.

I know I've touched on it before and Jonathan enlightened me on the subject matter, but I still think they need to aggressively get the rail lines up and going to the for corners of Meck County. I'm talking heavy rail. Light rails do not have enough cars on them, but who am I.

It's a function of bad planning and not anticipating future growth. NCDOT is getting better at it with future construction projects. For example the loop around Greensboro is designed to handle more traffic than the loop around Charlotte. It will be decades before the Greensboro highway reaches capacity. The southern leg of 485 in Charlotte became obsolete shortly after it opened. Independence74 along with I-73 & I-74, will eventually be freeway all the way to Wilmington and Myrtle Beach. 77 north in Charlotte is total chaos. They don't know if they want free or toll lanes, light rail or heavy rail. On a side note, Charlotte and other new cities are not trying to follow in the footsteps of LA, ATL, Houston and others to become a community strangled with congested freeways.

[pproteinc]

Salisbury, NC?
If so, it is only 5 lanes between Exit 75 and 76. Only of those exits are main roads for Salisbury/Rowan County.

On the topic of 77, I was under the impression that no general purpose(free lanes) were going to be added for the forseeable future; Only toll lanes. The problem with 77 through downtown is there is little if any land to add lanes without bulldozing structures in addition to bridges.

Well I meant 5 lanes going both directions in total 10.

^How many places have roads/interstates like that?

Certainly not in the USA. That would cost way to much to do for USA standards.

the problem with 77 isnt the # of lanes, its all the freaking on and off ramps. thats whats slowing traffic. they just need to close some of them off and traffic would flow better.

I agree, however at the same time who thought it was ok to have and why is there 8 lanes out in the country (York County) and 6 lanes within a major city (Meck County)? Coming in to Charlotte should have easily been at least 8 to 12 lanes. If a small town like Salisbury can have a 10 lane highway I'm pretty sure the largest city in NC should have about the same if not more. Charlotte is becoming the new ATL, with people and companies moving here in large quantities. It's just going to get worse. I think we need at least 2 or 3 more freeways lol. 77 and 85 are the only interstate and then a loop. Looks like they're trying to make the first half of Independence a freeway as well which will help with traffic in that area. Coming into Uptown from that area is hell on earth in the mornings and leaving in the evenings.

I know I've touched on it before and Jonathan enlightened me on the subject matter, but I still think they need to aggressively get the rail lines up and going to the for corners of Meck County. I'm talking heavy rail. Light rails do not have enough cars on them, but who am I.

It's a function of bad planning and not anticipating future growth. NCDOT is getting better at it with future construction projects. For example the loop around Greensboro is designed to handle more traffic than the loop around Charlotte. It will be decades before the Greensboro highway reaches capacity. The southern leg of 485 in Charlotte became obsolete shortly after it opened. Independence74 along with I-73 & I-74, will eventually be freeway all the way to Wilmington and Myrtle Beach. 77 north in Charlotte is total chaos. They don't know if they want free or toll lanes, light rail or heavy rail. On a side note, Charlotte and other new cities are not trying to follow in the footsteps of LA, ATL, Houston and others to become a community strangled with congested freeways.

Oh trust me Greensboro is the best ride ever I know, hell even once you past the new windmill interchange before Concord Mills is even wonderful, that's like 8 lanes in one direction. I do agree with you on not trying to follow the footsteps of older cities, I've driven in all cities mentioned and a few others and they all are chaotic. I'm a city boy so I'm used to it but my road rage is another story lol

The problem with the whole toll lane fiasco is that once they build them, they wont be able to widen 77 if they wanted to for the next 50yrs. I have no problem with having the toll express lanes I'm from NYC we paid tolls everywhere we went. Just crossing a bridge was a toll and I have a peach pass now for ATL which also covers the SC toll road in Greenville, NC Triangle Toll road in Raleigh, and Florida toll roads in Orlando. I also have the EZ Pass of course for back home in NYC/Jersey. I just have a problem with the tolls not staying in the state of NC to help with the cost of maintaining the roadways.

[KIJester]

RollerBee wrote:
^How many places have roads/interstates like that?
pproteinc replied
"Certainly not in the USA. That would cost way to much to do for USA standards"

Crosstown Expressway in Tampa FL has elevated REL toll lanes (reversible express lanes)
THIS IS WHAT WE NEED ON 77 NORTH TO MOORESVILLE and below is how it works...

On Weekdays: Westbound (from Brandon Suburb to Downtown Tampa): 6 am – 10 am.
Transitional: 10 am – 1 pm. Eastbound direction (Brandon Parkway segment) opens at 10:30 am.
Westbound direction (west of 78th Street) closes at 11:30 am.

Eastbound (to Brandon?suburbs): 1 pm – 4 am.

Weekends and holidays Eastbound direction (to Brandon/suburbs) ONLY: 1pm (Friday afternoon) to 4 am (Monday morning)
On some major holidays, the REL will operate Eastbound all day, with direction reversing Westbound the following day at 4am, if the holiday does not fall on a Friday. If the holiday falls on a Friday, the REL will remain Eastbound throughout the entire weekend until the following Monday at 4am
Ground level lanes are always free and open 24 hours.

BACK ON TOPIC: Can't wait for new Starbucks

[Jonathan]

You can't build your way out of congestion. That is why Atlanta has become what it has become. Widening congested roads is a futile exercise that has pretty much never resulted in an actual improvement in congestion long-term. Roads function as a free good and the more you build the more they'll be consumed. Congestion pricing and investment in transit are the only ways to prevent a place from becoming transportation hell (aka Atlanta). That or destroying the local economy, which is probably not the recommended solution.

Anyway this thread has drifted ridiculously off topic. Moving to All Things Not Carowinds.

[uscbandfan]

^ THAT is not a through freeway. That looks to be a border crossing. But, point taken. Widening would solve some issues but, eventually, the road does narrow. Interstates are a bit different since the narrowing can happen outside of town where the traffic is substantially less. However, you must be careful of the donut effect. Population and growth moves outward from a city center only to move back once that ring gets so big. Then you have a populous downtown with a ring of deadness around it with the suburbs thriving. The process then repeats.

Columbia, SC is experiencing that now with outer areas like Harbison, Irmo and Sandhills and Blythewood now thriving along with the downtown vista and the booming areas of 15 years ago now dead like Dutch Square and Columbia Mall area that's in a ring just 5 miles outside of town. 15 years from now, that will probably change again.

Remember, 15 years ago when the Coliseum was built on Tyvola it was an up and coming area. Now, the up and coming area has moved south (and east). You need to be careful what you take 5 or more years to build for and what those conditions will be at that time.

That said, the tight corridor from Panthers Stadium down to the loop is absolutely ridiculous and needs a volume of help. Feels like threading a needle through there.

[arby]

I happened to be looking at some construction projects yesterday. I found it interesting to note that the widening of I-77 from Brookshire Freeway South to the SC state line is not on the list of High Profile Projects:

http://www.ncdot.gov/projects/projectsstudies/?Counties=*&Region=*

Right now their primary focus in the Charlotte area is I-77 from Mooresville to Brookshire Freeway, I-85 from Concord to Kannapolis, and Independence Boulevard from Albemarle Road to Matthews.

Additionally, two other main focuses (that impact me directly and I'm excited for) are the Monroe Bypass Connector from Marshville to I-485 (with an interchange 2 miles from my house) and an Express Lane from I-485 to I-77 in Southern Mecklenburg county.

While we're on the topic of transportation, I found this article to be interesting: NCDOT Year in Review

You're welcome for my NC state taxes going up even though they said taxes weren't going up. By them taking away all the deductions including the one for our 529 plan, my state taxes effectively went up over 30%...

[cwgator]

^How many places have roads/interstates like that?

Orlando says Hi...

Capture.JPG (64.4 KiB) Viewed 7991 times

Jacksonville (FL) too...

Overland 3.jpg (221.23 KiB) Viewed 7991 times

[coasterbruh]

^How many places have roads/interstates like that?

Certainly not in the USA. That would cost way to much to do for USA standards.

Orlando says Hi...

Capture.JPG

Jacksonville (FL) too...

Overland 3.jpg

And lets not mention New York. Y'all gotta get out more . . .

[arby]

...and Boston, and Seattle, and Houston, and St. Louis MO, just to name four that come to mind that I have seen.

Oh, and the Brookshire/John Belk freeway.

[tarheel1231]

On a related note, it will be interesting to see what becomes of Cabela's with continued rumors and talks of Bass Pro Shops buying them out. There is an estimated one-third location overlap of the two competitor's large stores within a reasonable driving location of each other across the nation (which I would think includes the Charlotte Metro area). If the purchase goes through down the road, it will be interesting to see if any of the stores are closed that fall into that location overlap.

I say turn Cabela's by Carowinds into a Bass Pro Shop and turn the Bass Pro Shop at Concord Mills into an indoor theme park like MoA.

[pproteinc]

^How many places have roads/interstates like that?

Certainly not in the USA. That would cost way to much to do for USA standards.

Orlando says Hi...

Capture.JPG

Jacksonville (FL) too...

Overland 3.jpg

And lets not mention New York. Y'all gotta get out more . . .

Uh I'm from New York lol I'm just underground more than anything. I love the subway lol. You of all people should know I travel a lot sir.

...and Boston, and Seattle, and Houston, and St. Louis MO, just to name four that come to mind that I have seen.

Oh, and the Brookshire/John Belk freeway.

I've been to every city listed but I never pay attention to the highway set up however Houston's highways are very complex.